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Competition feedback
http://www.maverickservers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=16950
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Author:  InsaneKid [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Competition feedback

its just unfair!
and the way to stop it, is
makin it a rule!

and the rule, that was brought in new, was
that there would be no updates possible!
it wasnt like this in the last 2 competitions
and was brought near the end! of this one!

if rules are changed,
all participants must confirm that!

Author:  Maverick [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Competition feedback

InsaneKid wrote:
and the rule, that was brought in new, was
that there would be no updates possible!
it wasnt like this in the last 2 competitions
and was brought near the end! of this one!


You are incorrect. Every competition has had a deadline where all work is stopped and the maps are submitted for judging. You are welcome to continue working on your map but further progress will NOT be judged.

If you can continue to fix your map while it is judged then what is the point of the deadline?

Edit: here's Summer 2010's judging announcement:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16847

Author:  InsaneKid [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Competition feedback

But the mapPack for the judges wasnt released immediatly,
and i remember, that u took updates for this mapPack
even 1 week after the deadline ...
and then gave the mapPack to the judges!

Author:  cityy [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Competition feedback

Not really, no.

Author:  Maverick [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Competition feedback

A deadline is a deadline, whether you adhere to it or don't.

The mappack was released a few days after the deadline occurred and no more maps were added in there after the deadline occurred. I can't vouch for what happened in the past, but I do not see any mention of a grace period for the deadline in any of the rules I have written up in the current competition or in the past ones.

Author:  StormShadow [ Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Competition feedback

Quote:
its just unfair ...
esp. if even judges are influenced
by this kind of wide commercial ...
creatin a big fan-cloud (includin the judges) ...


Even if promoting a level gives a mapper an advantage (which it doesn't) - you were free to do so yourself. No one was stopping you. If you see something that gives you a competitive edge, then take it. If you don't - that's your choice - and don't get upset with other people who did.

Quote:
But the mapPack for the judges wasnt released immediatly,
and i remember, that u took updates for this mapPack
even 1 week after the deadline ...
and then gave the mapPack to the judges!


The rules were clear. Turn in your map for judging by the deadline. Whether or not Maverick gave the competitors a break in the past is irrelevant to the current competition.

Frankly, this is ridiculous.

If you are disappointed in your results, try focusing that energy on doing better next time instead of casting blame.

Author:  InsaneKid [ Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Competition feedback

ur judgin blind, instead u should read in those forums,
where ppl write,
that they like only that certain map,
coz of this commercial!
which reads like:
"all other maps must be shit,
coz i havent found them!"

thats not bad for the other maps only,
but also for the competition!

its the privilege of the organizer to advertise!

Edit:
and yes, im still disappointed ...
but about one of the judge,
that seemed to have no interest in judgin (of some maps)
and so look his scores!
he even admitted it, once!

Author:  StormShadow [ Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Competition feedback

InsaneKid wrote:
ur judgin blind, instead u should read in those forums,
where ppl write,
that they like only that certain map,
coz of this commercial!
which reads like:
"all other maps must be shit,
coz i havent found them!"


I won the first competition and I didn't release a single beta, or a single screenshot on any forum or promote my map anywhere. I thought it gave me an advantage, since my work was fresher in the eyes of the judges.

Quote:
but about one of the judge,
that seemed to have no interest in judgin (of some maps)
and so look his scores!
he even admitted it, once!


Was the judge providing feedback to certain players?

Author:  InsaneKid [ Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Competition feedback

such (forum-posts and) comments by other players (3rd parties)
create prejudices ...
and if judges dont have interest in some! of the maps ...
they might be influenced somehow!

that judge had written:
"Didnt even try to put effort into it."
(maybe not only into one map)

Author:  StormShadow [ Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Competition feedback

InsaneKid wrote:
such (forum-posts and) comments by other players (3rd parties)
create prejudices ...
and if judges dont have interest in some! of the maps ...
they might be influenced somehow!

that judge had written:
"Didnt even try to put effort into it."
(maybe not only into one map)


Well, since we cant ask mappers not to release betas, maybe we should isolate the judges in a bubble for the duration of the competition.

Author:  Fubsy [ Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Competition feedback

StormShadow wrote:
InsaneKid wrote:
such (forum-posts and) comments by other players (3rd parties)
create prejudices ...
and if judges dont have interest in some! of the maps ...
they might be influenced somehow!

that judge had written:
"Didnt even try to put effort into it."
(maybe not only into one map)


Well, since we cant ask mappers not to release betas, maybe we should isolate the judges in a bubble for the duration of the competition.


lol :)

Author:  Fubsy [ Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Competition feedback

dONKEY wrote:
I agree designers should be able to modify the ads, regardless, this time around rules were rules and should have been adhered to.

As for judging...well, it's always gonna be subjective.
I do kind of agree with Anthem on the map file aspect. Some of the maps placed quite well had pretty poor build quality.
You know it's always a thing...technical quality vs aesthetic vs game play. That balance is always going to be subjective and pretty much down to the judges.
No sour grapes on my part. I liked my level and I deliberately built it that way for my own personal reasons, not really caring if anybody else bought into it or not. I know the type of detail and atmosphere I can create, and have demonstrated it in the past. It was a conscious decision not to do that here.

What irks me slightly is the build quality aspect, but at the end of the day, it's a game, it's a hobby and it's down to opinion.


On the other hand, for sure the best two maps were placed in the top two places.
For me Phant's map visually is a classic. No debate. The only slight criticism is bot performance, which if given a little more time I'm sure he would have nailed.


I kinda feel like Donkey is having a dig at me and Kaustic here for coming higher than him in the overall score maybe im wrong. I think donkeys map was a great design technically and ok my map wasn't pretty but I was going for gameplay rather than looks and I think it works pretty well. I think if the judges had played dual on my map with another real player they would of had alot of fun I know my friends have. I'd also like to point out the main reason I did such a bad job on the texturing was because as I havnt used radiant for over 2 years I had no textures and most of the sites I used to use are no longer available so I had to use what I could find as I'm not that handy with photoshop, this is also my first mp map outside of making them for clans as I mainly made maps for defrag including freestyle maps.

I think most of the judges where fair with their scores and opinions and I don't think its fair for Kid to moan at maverick about rules etc if it wasn't for him there wouldn't even be these competitions .

Regards
Fubsy

Author:  hipshot [ Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Competition feedback

This contest really benefits of having people posting their respective work around the net for other peoples viewings, most often - if not always - the poster says that it's a level for this competition. It also benefits the site as a whole.

If we want the competition to become better, we need more contenders and to get that, we need to spread the word and advertise. I really can't see how a mapper personally can benefit from this, if his/her level isn't already better.

Author:  dONKEY [ Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Competition feedback

Fubsy wrote:
I kinda feel like Donkey is having a dig at me and Kaustic..


No I'm really not. :)

We all make choices as to why we design a map in a certain way. I was annoyed that nobody seemed to get my choices, but that's more to do with the sense of attachment you have as the author of a piece of work after spending a lot of time on it.

If you read my comment as negative, I apologize, that wasn't my intention.

Author:  hipshot [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Competition feedback

I really think this contest should be restricted to FFA and TDM only. That would make it much simpler and better for everyone - both contenders and referees.

The only bad thing about it would be the variation. But to be honest, no judge have the time to play a good real CTF and no judge would pass a good objective judgment on a level with some strange self-invented game mode or a level for a mod.

If anyone disagrees, please, give me some good reasons why...

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