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 Competition feedback 
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Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 5:44 pm
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Post Competition feedback
Much like the first competition, now that things are wrapping up, I'd like to get some constructive feedback from everyone.

Random things I'd like to know:
-What were your thoughts about being forced to post the secret words?
-Comments about posting your progress?
-Were the prizes appropriate?
-Competition length (10 weeks) appropriate?
-Did you feel the judging was done fairly and non-prejudiced?
-Overall organization of the competition?
-Rules were clear and easy to understand?
-Anything you'd like me to change for next time?

Please don't feel restricted by the above questions. If you have seemingly random commments please let me know. I felt like this competition was much smoother than the previous one and I attribute much of that to feedback received.

Thanks.


Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:09 pm
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Post Re: Competition feedback
I think the time we had was about right.. gave you enough time to sort out all issues and bugs.
IMO everything about the competition was right. Maybe give a bit more information in terms of the secret words in the next comp's FAQ; like when do you get kicked for not posting and stuff - seemed like not everybody was aware of it. Maybe the testing servers could be used more intensively next time like having a fixed schedule for matches (ofc only as a suggestion); just to get things going. Overall things were awesome, again, thank you for hosting this. :)

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Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:00 pm
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Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 1:27 pm
Posts: 82
Post Re: Competition feedback
Yes, I think it was don well. Tho if I can be perfectly honest 'secret word' didn't really make it's purpose. I think if somebody would like to use old map file here, there is no problem with deleting part of brush structures, and saying it's 'new' ;). Only good thing about 'secret word' was that we had to post something every week, so there was more traffic at site, and it felt we really participate in it. Anyway great job, thank you Maverick for making whole thing, and congratz to the winners once again!


Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:22 am
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Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:31 pm
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Post Re: Competition feedback
:cry:


Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:24 am
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Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 3:11 am
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Post Re: Competition feedback
I think there should be a competition for looks only and no game play ;)

Seriously though, time frame was right, maybe winter might be better if people have more time?

I have to agree that the secret word was daft, but I did like the way that the forum was kept so busy with folks posting stuff.

I would like to see more asset challenges, eg texture and model creation and/or turtle or speed mapping contests in the same way we used to do at Mapcenter. Some small quick contests that help generate buzz amongst the community, keep mapping and modding alive and generate a busy forum board.

I see a second golden age for Q3 right now, and I honestly thought the scene was dead. These maps show there are guys still making damn fine maps for a game that is over 10 years old. It would be a shame to lose the really quality mappers that we have right now just because there is nothing to motivate them.

My personal agenda would be to run hourly speed map contests every couple of weeks. I KNOW the old MC speed mapping guys would be up for that. I really miss that :)


Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:04 pm
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:40 pm
Posts: 68
Post Re: Competition feedback
-What were your thoughts about being forced to post the secret words?
I thought it was great. Made the forums much more active and opposite to ShadoW, I think it's a good way of sorting cheaters, at least casual ones.

-Comments about posting your progress?
Maybe the rules needs to be enforced more, kick people out that clearly doesn't follow the posting screenshot rules?

-Were the prizes appropriate?
If ever possible, a cash prize would be the best bait. But then, at least I think, the rules really needs to be enforced much stronger.
Else, I think it was good, even though the Autodesk deal is pretty bad for people outside the US market even though it's probably the most valuable prize?

-Competition length (10 weeks) appropriate?
Very, I came in late and to my surprise, I managed to send a fairly complete level to submission. Had I been in from the beginning, I would have been able to do everything I wanted - probably.

-Did you feel the judging was done fairly and non-prejudiced?
I feel this is more or less impossible to answer, but I guess it was, at least I hope so!
As long as the judges doesn't make any levels, it should be fair, if there's no previous beef.
edit: I just remembered that Anthem was in as a contender, that would not have been OK in my book.

-Overall organization of the competition?
Bad: Info page really could have been updated better, have a better layout, news about the impending contest could have been spread earlier? Prize info, a bit strange...
Good: Done from one person more or less, servers, information, sponsors, rules, etc.

-Rules were clear and easy to understand?
Very - to me.

-Anything you'd like me to change for next time?
I need to think further...


Last edited by hipshot on Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:33 am
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Post Re: Competition feedback
In all, I also think this was a much smoother event than the last time, felt much better organized.


Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:37 am
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Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 5:44 pm
Posts: 231
Post Re: Competition feedback
I'm going to add my comment inline...

hipshot wrote:
-Comments about posting your progress?
Maybe the rules needs to be enforced more, kick people out that clearly doesn't follow the posting screenshot rules?


Do you mean I should specifically lock threads that haven't met the current secret word requirement, or just be vigilant with getting people to post their screenshots on time?

Quote:
-Were the prizes appropriate?
If ever possible, a cash prize would be the best bait. But then, at least I think, the rules really needs to be enforced much stronger.
Else, I think it was good, even though the Autodesk deal is pretty bad for people outside the US market even though it's probably the most valuable prize?


Yeah, cash would definitely be better, but unfortunately I haven't met any companies yet who want to donate in that manner. I'm definitely keeping an eye out for them though. It is too bad the licensing restrictions for Autodesk are out of my hands. On that note, what other programs do you guys use? I've been trying to focus on getting sponsorships from companies which make software popular for mapping.

Quote:
-Did you feel the judging was done fairly and non-prejudiced?
I feel this is more or less impossible to answer, but I guess it was, at least I hope so!
As long as the judges doesn't make any levels, it should be fair, if there's no previous beef.
edit: I just remembered that Anthem was in as a contender, that would not have been OK in my book.


Yeah, originally I wasn't going to ask Anthem to be a judge since he was a competitor, but when he dropped out I felt a little more comfortable with this. Either way, we had a long discussion about the "appropriateness" of it.

Quote:
-Overall organization of the competition?
Bad: Info page really could have been updated better, have a better layout, news about the impending contest could have been spread earlier? Prize info, a bit strange...
Good: Done from one person more or less, servers, information, sponsors, rules, etc.


Can you give specific examples of what you wanted the competition page to have as far as news? How often did you want it updated? Was the information not useful or did you find it lacking (and if so, what did you expect)? The competition started on May 25th but was announced on May 14. Should I announce it a month beforehand, instead of 2 weeks? What was strange about the prize info?


Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:55 pm
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Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 2:33 am
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Post Re: Competition feedback
I think overall it was run very well, time frame was perfect, doing it in the summer was excellent for students like myself. It would be useful if the judging criterion were posted at the beginning of the competition so that it is more obvious which features are most important. I would have liked to see more verbal reasoning from the judges as to why certain values were given, it would be helpful.


Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:01 pm
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Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 5:44 pm
Posts: 231
Post Re: Competition feedback
-As long as we're discussing the time of the competition, is Summer generally the best time to run this competition? Previously it was done in Winter. Any preference?
-I'll go ahead and make sure the judging form is shown as soon as the competition starts in the future.
-Verbal reasoning from the judges is a tough thing, especially since some of them don't have a lot of time to make elaborate comments. Also we have to remember that a judge is there to issue scores, rather than beta test a map and give feedback. I always love to see comments being made, however the judges are donating their time and don't really get anything back by helping. It's kind of an iffy issue.


Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:17 pm
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Post Re: Competition feedback
Yeah that's true. I was thinking after I had made the comment about how it might be pretty time consuming to make write ups along with judging.


Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:42 pm
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Post Re: Competition feedback
I actually did ask each judge to record a demo of them playing, but I didn't get any this time. A few submitted them for the first competition, but in the end we're talking about people donating their time, so I'm a little uncomfortable asking for a ton of extra favors. It would be nice if the judges did at least justify their scores, so I'll make a note to change the judging verbage for next time to clarify this.


Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:06 am
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Post Re: Competition feedback
Thanks for the competition, Maverick;
thanks, lvl designers for the nice maps and your talk on irc!
Thanks for the prizes, sponsors (prolly not reading anyway).

This comp was way better than last time, either it's because of the fact I had more contact to the people here, or because it was a team map (thanks to g0th, he made that project with me). I think deadline was set good. Right between the time of my civil service, starting study and holidays with gf. It's hard to find the "right" time. Mostly because of tests in school or uni (don't know who's passed this time already). And if we would have started earlier with this map we could have collected much more feedback. But still it was enough time to finish this piece.
The mini-contest is a nice conclusion for this competition.
Hard to say if anyone should be kicked if he doesnt post progress pictures, but it was actually nice to see them. How everyone started and progressed. Isn't it possible to see in the map's header or somewhere else when someone started the map? It shouldn't be worth a ban if someone just has no time to continue to work on the map, or time to post the screens.

For the infopage: Post the forum somewhere at the top.

Sponsors to ask:
Adobe, def. id Software, texture sites you usually have to pay for (some stock sites?), and perhaps someone knows some names of publishers of art books, architecture books, or any related literature. Would be different prizes than just hard- or software. IMO this comp doesn't need prize money. The prizes provided here are very fine!


Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:08 pm
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Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 1:27 pm
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Post Re: Competition feedback
I totally agree that prizes are just fantastic! I'll be honest, ANY prize that is donated now, after 10 years of release for Q3 mapping is just great, and incredible. Maverick, my compliments to you just for making this whole competition, and actually getting great prizes for it.

Tho with id QuakeCon game pack for every participant would be even better :) ;P.


Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:41 pm
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Post Re: Competition feedback
Weekly update screenshot was a pain in the neck. I work full time and have weeks where I am super busy and its a struggle to post a screenshot. I don't want to be disqualified - especially after putting 30+ hours of work into a map - for not having the time to post a screenshot.

If the purpose of the screenshots is to verify that maps are new, wouldn't a couple shots of early progress suffice? Or a few over the course of the competition? I know one guy dropped out because he couldn't be bothered to post weekly screenshot.

If someone wanted to be really clever, they could get around the screenshot rule as well. I personally save multiple versions of all of my maps as I design them, all I would have to do to buck the system is open an older version of a map and stick the secret word in there.

Just generally speaking, I think there must be a better way to verify that the maps being used are original. What this way is - I do not know.


Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:16 am
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