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 dk_ctf_ng2-Final submission 
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Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 7:54 pm
Posts: 62
Post Re: dk_ctf_ng2
I agree with Charlie about the top level in center. Perhaps a broken bridge would be more ordinary for the map theme. Also, this would be a good place to incorporate a mega health or red armor. If you also added a path through the center of the central obstacle (building thing), that may be a good place for a power up.

(See phantq3ctf1 for an example of this layout method in center)

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[14:12] <@Maverick|MSG> I had to mix the meat by hand


Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:47 am
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Post Re: dk_ctf_ng2
Thanks guys. I feel a rope bridge coming on. Good ideas.


Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:30 pm
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Post Re: dk_ctf_ng2
Hi dONKEY. First of all I love how does this map look, and whole theme of it. You gathered there a lot of great textures, so it's erally a shame that we can't see hafl ot em :/. This map seriously needs lightning up. Tbh, to me it looks right now, like there is no lightning work done, just skybox put over the map, and it lights up part of it. Look at some of my screenshoth, how great differences there are in parts of the map (in lightning). You should really improve this.

Also there is a lot if weird clipping, in dungeons for example theare are big distances between clips and actuall brushes. I think you should look at clipping once more and maybe imrove it also a little bit :).

Trees looks very weird, but you already know it, and fixed :).

This map is very tight/small. I think it's something like ctf1, but it hasn't big central part where grea part of the fight is going on. This is actually strange, almost all the fighting takes places in bases :/, and central part is just suicidal, it's so tight (and dark), that it's camper paradise. 4v4 game is very hard (especially with bots, who don't really leave the base), but I'm not sure how many ppl is it for. 2v2 gameplay would be much better. I would really like to see some real central area also.

I would really like to see some underground connection between bases. As I mentioned earlier, upper part is just suicidal, there is a need for other path, so fc could actually bring the flag to the base :). Please add a corridor in the dungeons, you can alwasy add something, to make it harder to go through there, maybe add pool in the middle or sth.

Brushwork/modelling/terrain/textures etc - marvellous - you rock! :)

I don't like how guns are placed here. You have LG almost next to RG and then to RL. I think having LG and RG both on this map atm is too much. I would remove one of those guns completely, or in case new underground corridor addition, place one copy for both teams there (so it's 2xLg + 1xRg in overall).

Also I have and idea for central part of the map. is it's not possible to extend it, you could place two portals at the bottom of the central structure leading to its top. You could have there regen, since it's fu#### impossible to enter the base and steal the flag now :).

Right now i think that's all I remember. I'll try to test it more and post feedback soon. GL & HF! :)

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Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:36 pm
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Post Re: dk_ctf_ng2
Been really busy in RL, but did some work on my map yesterday:
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I still have some clipping and the item issues to resolve, and I would like to come up with an alternative to magic rocks for jump pads.

Then I might be done :)


Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:20 am
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Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 8:45 pm
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Post Re: dk_ctf_ng2
I love the new flags; really brings in some color and will definitely help distinguish the bases.

The new shader for the trees looks aces.

I can't really tell how the rope bridge will play, but it looks like it will bring some much needed vertical action to the mid.

Not too sure about those spotlights though.


Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:30 am
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Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 7:54 pm
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Post Re: dk_ctf_ng2
You neeeeeeeeed to get rid of the spot lights. The electric lamps in the lower level were pushing it, but this really undermines the integrity and beauty of the map you created. These accessories do not fit the theme of the map, and it is almost unjust to add them to a foundation that is so creative and wonderful.

I hope that you will rethink the decision to add those.

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Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:01 am
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Post Re: dk_ctf_ng2
I understand what u are saying, but I think they do fit! I have a Cambodian/architectural dig theme going on. I hope it will make sense. The electric lights and the spot lights are powered by generators in the lower areas. I hope it makes sense. If people hate it I will drop it. I didn't make the generator, but I did spend a day making the spot light! Will see what you guys think when I'm done with this build.
The thing with the lights is I need more light in the open areas, and I want a source, otherwise it looks odd.
With Jump pads I am thinking my power source can be powering some fan style jump pads, big rotating fans behind safety mesh. Do you think that sounds OK?


Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:58 pm
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Post Re: dk_ctf_ng2
I guess I will wait for the finished product before I judge the detailing, but I really think the map needs to keep its natural theme. It seemed as though the area was simply abandoned, but now it seems as though it is being excavated by workers with the lights and such. I don't know, I just hope you don't mess it up! :)

Anyway, I can see you are addressing some of the issues previously observed. At this point I would remove the fences altogether. You will have enough detailing without them, and they do seem really weird in the map. I also want to express my concerns about the layout of items. I'm assuming you are creating a central area for a power up, which is good. I recommend quad damage as it is fought over for obvious reasons (rather than haste, which is ignored occasionally because it doesn't offer as much of a reward). I also have some other suggestions to propose in order to help you spread out the weapons and armor. Please try to keep an open mind and consider some of the suggestions posted below. I seem declarative in my explanations and reasoning behind making these changes, but I am simply proposing these ideas as options and will not be offended if you choose not to administer any of these changes. I feel they help with the layout somewhat. These changes build off one another to help spread the items evenly throughout.

My first suggestion involves a critical factor in CTF: Defense. There needs to be a way for the defender to maintain control of the flag room. This is done by giving the player Red Armor or Mega Health. (It is usually Red Armor since Mega Health can be placed around mid, or both are in the base. However, in this case the bases aren't quite large enough to house both the Red Armor and Mega Health, so I recommend placing Red Armor here should you incorporate this into the map.

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(Sorry about the poor quality of the paint picture, lol.)

My next suggestions build off of each other. This series of changes spreads the items around throughout the base and surrounding area.

Adding two small platforms here and on the opposite side of the base in both bases (or somewhere else in the bases for that matter) would house the YA and railgun more precisely. The Railgun is essentially a defensive weapon, but it is also more commonly used by mid players.

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The Lightning gun should be placed where the Railgun was. Since the railgun was moved back into one of those small platforms, it is the perfect place for a well centralized (and commonly used by all 3 positions (offense, defense and mid)) weapon. The health is just a tad too much in that area. I recommend placing some health in other places to compensate.

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Since the Lightning gun is where the Railgun is this one can be removed and replaced by ammo boxes.

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This Rocket Launcher is in a great place, but it changes between Plasma and Lightning, which I feel is unnecessary.

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The Rocket Launcher here should be centralized. The Yellow Armor will be in one of the platforms above. The original positions of the YA and RL can be replaced by ammo boxes.

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Centralize the Shotgun here.

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The offset of these two platforms is apparent through simple observation.

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And lastly, Z-Fighting.

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Anyway, I hope you take some of these changes into consideration. I really want to push the tunnel behind the flag because the base needs a good item to help the defender(s). Regardless, though, this map is coming together greatly. I share phant's opinion on the flags to indicate the bases. That's really interesting. I really hope you can fix the layout a bit because at the moment this is really in the running to win the whole competition. I've never really seen a map such as this besides "Marilyn" by Rota (and the similarities are still very minimal). This, to me, has a more organic feel. The only problems I have now (besides those covered in my suggestions above) are the tile texture (it's really low res), the lack of health and ammo, and the spawn points. I think more health and ammo should be spread around the map. Also, the spawn points in the middle area or lower section shouldn't be as prevalent. It's okay to have some spawns in the lower section, but to start off in one of the upper platforms in the mid is a bit too close. There needs to be more base spawning. If you fix some of these problems and make the map a bit more playable, there is very little holding you back from winning.

I wish you luck in the competition and in completing this map. It is exciting to see your creative work and I really look forward to the next beta and this map's completion.

Well done.

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Last edited by Anthem on Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:48 pm
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Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 3:11 am
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Post Re: dk_ctf_ng2
Thank you. Will be re-visiting item layout/load shortly and that is all very helpful indeed.
I love making artwork but am a terrible player so I am well aware I need help in game play areas.
That sounds some very solid suggestions to me.


Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:14 pm
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Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 1:27 pm
Posts: 82
Post Re: dk_ctf_ng2
Well, I think that electric light sources fit this map. I would vote to let them stay! Also please, don't add the quad, add regen!. Quad woud be way too powerful for this map. Beside this, most of what Anthem said :).


Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:56 pm
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Post Re: dk_ctf_ng2
ShadoW wrote:
Well, I think that electric light sources fit this map. I would vote to let them stay! Also please, don't add the quad, add regen!. Quad woud be way too powerful for this map. Beside this, most of what Anthem said :).


Hmm, yes. You could be right. Quad would probably rape the opposing team. The map is pretty small despite its height. There are many small areas in which a player could easily be caught by Quad Shotgun. It is probably best to be Regen.

In the event that you should choose Regen as the powerup, I recommend placing the Mega Health in the base behind the flag instead of Red Armor, replacing the lines of small healths (+5) around the opening below in each base with Armor Shards, and placing the Red Armor in center with the Regen (at a different level).

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Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:44 pm
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Post Re: dk_ctf_ng2
grr, just spent 2 hours remodelling my terrain mesh, then to find out I cut the new cave area in the wrong place. Mapping with models seemed like a good idea when I started.
Gud suggestions guys...thank you so much.


Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:29 pm
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Post Re: dk_ctf_ng2
Beta 2 is ready:
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Download Link HERE

Change log is pretty huge.

New route added across the centre area with power up

New area for power up in lower part of central area

New item layout

New design to flag areas

New graphic/theme tweaks or additions

Fixing clipping issues

Lighting

Worked on bot file (although they are still pretty blah)

On the downside,
The Q3 engine is kinda creaking under the strain. The level is still playable on my laptop. I can only apologise if it chugs on older machines. I've kinda gone over board on the visuals.

Stuff still to do:

Sponsor images (where are they btw?), I intend these to go on bill boards around the central area building tops

Better bot file

Some clipping

Some lighting

Would love to improve Vis, but think that's pointless.


Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:54 am
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Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 3:11 am
Posts: 119
Post Re: dk_ctf_ng2
Oh...this weeks word:

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Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:06 am
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Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 7:54 pm
Posts: 62
Post Re: dk_ctf_ng2
Just a few problems I have: (I will write more up later)

The upper level of the central area seems to be a second thought. With one sided rope bridges it's like half of a second level. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it's harder to get to the powerup unless the player is on the rope bridge or has rocket launcher.

Also, the player clip is rather low for the second level. Players will often be rocketed up and need space in which to do so.

I will post more in a bit.

I love the team indicating flags, btw. They look really nice. :D

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Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:20 pm
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